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Vagueness in Mathematical Terms (reworked and more accessible)

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Posted by Andrew Nightingale in Questions in Logic

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consciousness, mathematics, philosophy, science

High Up (On Vagueness and Mathematics)

Imagine walking down Olympus Mons — the largest volcano in the solar system, on Mars. Its slopes are so gradual that you might walk for hours barely noticing the descent. At the top, you are clearly “high up.” At the bottom, you are clearly not. But somewhere in between, the description falters. You become unsure whether “high up” applies or not. That fuzzy middle zone is what philosophers call vagueness.

We can make this precise — or try to. Map the mountain onto a number line: 0 at the summit, 1 at the base. The set of points where you count as “high up” has a boundary. Call it sup — the least upper bound, the last point before “high up” runs out. The set of points where you count as “not high up” also has a boundary: inf, the greatest lower bound, the first point where “not high up” begins.

Now suppose — reasonably — that sup itself counts as “high up” (since every point below it does), and that inf counts as “not high up.” What happens when we ask how sup and inf relate to each other?

There are only three possibilities, and each one produces a contradiction:

  • If sup = inf, then that single point is both “high up” and “not high up.”
  • If sup > inf, then the real number line — which is dense, meaning there’s always another number between any two — guarantees a point z sitting between them. That point would be both “high up” (since it’s below sup) and “not high up” (since it’s above inf).
  • If inf > sup, the same logic applies in reverse.

The standard response is to blame the vague word. “High up” is imprecise — a folk term, not a technical one. Strip it away and mathematics, supposedly, is safe.

But stripping the vague term doesn’t solve the problem. It moves it.


Consider the wave theory of light. Its mathematical core — the equation governing refraction:

sin(α) / sin(β) = μ

— looks clean and precise. But the philosopher Mary Hesse pointed out that the equation, on its own, is ambiguous: it can be interpreted in multiple, entirely different ways. The symbols don’t come pre-labeled. Perhaps α and β aren’t angles of light at all — perhaps they’re the angles between the Pole Star and two planets at midnight. The mathematics would fit. Which interpretation is correct? The equation doesn’t say. Meaning doesn’t live in the symbols alone.

Vagueness and ambiguity are usually treated as distinct problems. Ambiguity means a word or expression has more than one possible meaning. Vagueness means a word has unclear edges — cases where it’s genuinely uncertain whether it applies. But consider: what if a word were both at once?

Thai has a word, krup, that technically means “yes” but functions more like a polite acknowledgment — because outright agreement can feel presumptuous, as if you’re confirming what the listener already knows. It occupies a middle space between assertion and non-assertion.

Now invent a word: snook. It means “tall” in some contexts and “not tall” in others. When applied to someone of borderline height — someone exactly at the edge of where “tall” is uncertain — is snook ambiguous, vague, or somehow both? Is there a vagueness between vagueness and ambiguity? If so, what does that do to the apparent clarity of mathematical symbols?


Even pure mathematics — mathematics with no interest in mountains or light — is soaked in vagueness. The discipline’s foundational concepts carry it: continuity, completeness, integral, limit. These are not casual approximations. They are the load-bearing terms of analysis, the branch of mathematics that underlies calculus.

And they are vague. Any careful textbook in real analysis will show you functions that slip through the formal definition of continuity — technically satisfying the definition while still behaving in ways the definition was meant to exclude. The definition doesn’t quite capture the intuition. The intuition doesn’t quite surrender to the definition. The gap between them is not a failure waiting to be fixed. It is where thinking happens.

Without words like “continuity” and “completeness” — words that mean something intuitively before they mean something formally, and that keep some of that intuitive life even afterward — mathematics would be unlearnable. Students would have nothing to grab onto. The vagueness isn’t what mathematics tolerates in spite of itself. It’s part of what mathematics thinks with.

The fantasy of a perfectly precise formal world, unsullied by the messiness of natural language, is just that — a fantasy. Vagueness goes all the way down.

The House Builder (Revision from June 2015)

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Posted by Andrew Nightingale in Questions in Logic

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ai, consciousness, philosophy, science, spirituality

“House-builder, you’re seen!
You will not build a house again.
All your rafters broken,
the ridge pole destroyed,
gone to the Unformed, the mind
has come to the end of craving.”

—Siddhārtha Gautama (the founder of Buddhism), upon reaching enlightenment (Dhammapada)

It was speculated by Thanissaro Bikkhu that the “house” meant selfhood, or perhaps entity-hood, in the commentary of the Dhammapada.

I would propose a model for logic that is a house. Some logical structures are immense. The light that passes through a window would be Truth; the laws that light follows as it interacts with the building would be the laws of logic; the specific form of this particular building would be the logical statements, determining the way truth (light) moves through the logical structure. (And by “truth” here I mostly mean the clarity and warrant that travels with what we can rightly assert—what survives transmission. Edit based in Pierre’s feedback: I will develop this idea of a clarity that degrades from true proposals partially true conclusions, to more partial conclusions, etc. The next essay will apply this loss in a truth property as a loss in the meaning of a number, or the numerousness of a number, as they progress indefinitely toward infinity. Then I will apply this idea to probability theory, which are revisions of my line of thought from 2015)

The trouble is completing the logical elements: what is falsehood? Obviously it is darkness, but the building would have to have no qualities except its form—no colors, no features, just featureless glass mirrors—otherwise the light would fade as it interacts with opaque surfaces, making truth and falsehood mingle. If the walls are perfect mirrors that propagate the light perfectly, a false space would have to be totally cut off from the light. Hypotheticals would be doors, sometimes open, sometimes shut. The only danger of falling into darkness would be entering through a door and closing it, completely cutting yourself off.

The theory that comes to mind is Anaximander’s, who thought the sun was just a hole in the cosmos, where light could enter from outside the Universe. And why is this ideal of logic impossible in the real world? There are no perfect mirrors. Matter has color that absorbs light, making it an intermediate between truth and falsehood. When logic from true principles is applied to real things—interacting with matter—the truth will dim as the logical statements progress, regardless of how perfectly the laws of logic are followed. If the world of logic were to be perfect, the truth could not originate from our world, or else light that is reflected back out the window of our house would fall, logically, onto ambiguous matter. Thus passing out the window must lead to a world that looked mostly the same as the building of mirrors.

With the modern conception that words can provide totally transparent access to an object, matter would be the only medium between truth and falsehood. But words simply aren’t transparent. They grow out of metaphors (as argued in the essay linked in my first post). The word “be” grew out of a Proto-Indo-European root which also meant grow—so that someone aware of the ancestry of words would resurrect the feeling of metaphor in the word “be,” coloring the word, giving it a connection that is warranted because “be” would not be what it is now without a fathering metaphor: being is growing.

And the design or form of this fun-house of mirrors—would it carry nameable concepts with it, concepts one would come to know or feel by living there? It would if it had any architectural design. How is this different from allowing a word, or a sign for an idea or feeling, into our logic?

The house of logic cannot allow matter, words, or form—except in a part of the house that is totally dark and without doors. They can be allowed into the part sectioned off as unconditionally false. Otherwise we are allowing degrees of truth, qualifications of truth, and a co-mingling of truth and falsehood.

The focus of this blog (expressed in the previous post) has changed to looking for systems of truth that gradually and naturally falsify themselves. What if we allowed matter in our house, and accepted gradations of truth? How could Aristotelian logic be modified so that each “step” in a logical progression reduced the amount of truth it propagated? The goal would initially be a logic that is calculable. So while we could take our lessons on how the logical system would be set up from how light interacts with matter, the resulting system would not be realistic initially. (For example: if a statement has “brightness” bbb, perhaps each inferential step discounts it by a factor k≤1k\le 1k≤1, so that long chains necessarily dim.) Following the logical system leads you out of the logical system, however, since the logical laws are not perfect propagators of truth. The logic I am formulating here, while not realistic, leads into a real world.

On Density

16 Saturday Dec 2023

Posted by Andrew Nightingale in Questions in Logic

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cosmology, physics, science, space, universe

One time my father said of my writing that it was very “tightly woven.” We both had a similar way of compacting ideas into a single sentence. He was more artful in his writing. I don’t know what higher praise there is, if writing is not artful, what ought it be? Here I ask how to weave the various ideas in the word Density together. I believe that woven things are a higher art than dense things, and the weave, as a craft, is the Metaphor for metaphor because there are links, nexus points, and emptiness. Density in its physical sense, at most in the sense of gas, means unlinked matter and empty space.

Density also carries the sense of “cloudy” in the Latin “densus.” The sense of dense as meaning stupid is the most recent (non-scientific) development (from etymonline.com entry on dense). I associate cloudy with my own work in the term vagueness, which many will call stupid. My writing, if you haven’t already noticed, is here merely a list of terms that are sort of next to each other the way particles are placed after one another in space. My aim is to weave these ideas together, to claim, for example, that air is not merely particles and space. The particles are linked by something. Actually, the links between particles are found in our definition of the space where the particles are. We claim to know what space is, but I would insist that we do not. This is one point where I am educated enough to feel confident. The rest is drawn from other sources. I am not merely talking about points that are not found on the continuum. I am talking about a nearly complete misunderstanding of space. Space is an unknown. It is the place where things are known. Space is synonymous with the mind; when the mind has arrived at itself. Pure mind holds nothing known. If we could completely fill space with known points, we would still not know space… we would have completely missed the point of space. Isaac Newton knew that the mind was not going to be explainable. The rest he tried to explain with gravity, and in the end he failed to explain gravity. What mechanism causes gravity? No-one knows. We only know that matter has gravity, not how or why. And density determines things like whether a cloud of gas will become a solid planet, or a star, or a black hole, or will diverge into rarer and rarer space.

Space is not a page or a canvas. It is not white or grey or black. A pure mind can be enlightened, but there is no telling if it knows its own enlightenment, just as a lighted space will not reveal its own light.

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Posted by Andrew Nightingale in Questions in Logic

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art, buddhism, philosophy, poetry, science, writing

A master of lies... He will know what kind and mode of deception is taking place at any moment set before him. He will know the lies of magic are the same as the lies of science. He must have detailed knowledge to the exactitude of a mathematician on why mathematics is a falsehood. A master of lies is most persuasive, and he knows how to hide his persuasion. He knows what purpose his lie serves, whether good or evil, beautiful or ugly or simply complex in how truth and lies are woven into the fabric of space-time.
 
He has found the crack in the wholeness of his being, from where he will shine his lights and darknesses. He will know why he shines a darkness instead of a light, what the dangers are and how to avoid them. It is not mastery if his lies cause him harm. In other words, mastery over lies is not different from a mastery of truth.

And a so-called master of truth only requires blind faith. Waving the flag of truth, he will be insulted if called a liar, as if lies were not integral to our existence on earth. He is blind to his own lies and manipulations, believing them to be right and true.

"Errat ergo sum" -St. Augustine

Come with me, I will guide you through the nightmare land of lies. And when you have crossed this valley of shadow, you will have a mastery that is more valuable than any fact.

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